Nofap P Without Mo Worth Continuing

1. I am almost two months PMO free, day 55 to be precise, hard mode, no MO and I am suffering from horrible mood swings, last three days were particularly bad, I feel crippled and stifled by fears about my future, not taking any initiative (I don't mean women, this is the least of my worries now) . I also feel a lot of anger towards myself and my circumstances. I have been in flatline almost since the start and still am like that. No sense of life down there. I am trying to exercise regularly and I am taking some supplements but it does not help a lot. Is anyone else experiencing the same after such a long period? I hoped by this time I will feel more balanced but it is not the case. I have read many accounts about how this journey enables people to me decision makers (I am aware of studies that show that PMO shrinks the decision making part of the brain) BUT this is exactly what I am struggling with - fear of making decision. Being passive and not making decision has been the issue that has made my life hell. This is not changing, yet!

2. Everything you described is completely normal man. Not sure if you found out about this through "NoFap"... or what... but I'll tell you this... NoFap 90 days is bullshit. It takes a lot longer than 90 days. I don't want to scare you and make you quit.. but for lots of us it can take OVER 6 months.

   I've been at this since December 2012.. I've been without P and M for around 6 months during my longest streak. I can attest to this man.. it works! No doubt in my mind. You WILL see remarkable changes in all facets of your life. However.. it's all dependent on YOU being CLEAN from P and M.. and not relapsing. It's unrealistic to think that relapse will never happen to you.. they happen to lots of us... but just know that if you relapse.. you are definitely setting yourself back and slowing your progress.

   When I was 13 I was a chick magnet. Random girls would walk up and flirt with me. Very popular, among top athletes in school and very happy. As I PMO'd more and more.. I degenerated into some social outcast dweeb. I mean TRULY, PMO can destroy you.. It's been a rough 10 years but I'm on the upswing now. I figure if PMOing can radically transform me.. then there's no reason why abstaining from P and M can't have the opposite effect.

   Let me tell you about the withdrawals and recovery though.. I have a similar experience. Yes you will feel lifeless and have no libido. Mood swings.. depression.. anxiety... chronic boredom. No supplements will change that. The only thing that will help you is continuing to stay COMPLETELY CLEAN for as long as it takes. During my 6 month streak, it just went on and on. Changes will happen gradually. I'll tell you this though... I had these weird moments where my brain started working again... for like 15 minutes at a time.. I had ZERO fear... I felt so powerful you would not believe it. You could have dared me to ask out a supermodel and I would have done it.. and probably gotten a date with her. After around 15 minutes though.. back to dweeb mode.. It's crazy... it's all a matter of our brain chemistry.

   Anyways sounds like you are more focused on life and career... which I promise man.. it will come naturally as long as you stay CLEAN. I can expand on anything... just let me know if you have any questions.

3. Nofap is for individuals who have access to sex on a regular basis, it's no surprise that your hormones are all out of whack if you don't masturbate or have sex.
   Suppressing sexual release goes directly against nature, just like porn. We have evolved to masturbate as a release valve, as sex isn't always an option. During some of the most repressed times throughout human history, when sexual education was non existent, people were still learning how to masturbate without any prior knowledge, it's in our genes.

   Of course you can do whatever the hell you want, but I've been off porn for weeks at a time and didn't stop masturbating. I felt a lot better and didn't have moodswings like I did without mo. If one were to masturbate they would probably want to shoot for no more than once per night, right before going to sleep so as to take advantage of the relaxing effect and to be re-energized by morning.

   Sure, if you suppress your sex drive for long enough your body will eventually say "fuck it" and will stop sending the urges, but I find the reports of "euphoria" after extended abstinence a little suspect. It's little wonder they feel good eventually, after going through hell for so long anything would feel great.
   Those crazy nofappers might be right, but it sure as hell isn't worth it for me.

4. Thanks man! I keep hearing this conflicting accounts about MO - that it is good or bad, that no MO can fuck you up even more, that No P but MO is no progress at all and that's what will fuck you up. Gary Wilson recommends in really bad cases 4 months hard mode to rewire the brain and I am going with this. I have been dealing with this since 2012 as well and can tell from personal experience that MOing makes it very likely to relapse with P. That is why I decided this time to go hard mode, cold turkey. I am suffering from PIED and since 2012 could only have sex with pills, which is very worrisome for me. Besides, anytime I went through the process of rebooting I always would either have sex (with pills) or MO before being naturally out of the flatline. In other words, it never got to the point of having strong erections in the morning or to get erection when aroused with no stimulus - like a hand job. This makes me think that I am in no way recovered from PIED. Also, I am not really convinced that if I MO (what Mik 2 claims here) the mood swings will be alleviated, this again is from previous experience. One thing is the danger of relapsing with P, the other is that I have no proof of the mood swings going away with MO, especially since I am not out of flatline. It is not that I have to struggle with huge boner and blue balls, as they call it. On the contrary, I am in total flatline and that's pretty much since day one.

5. I have exactly the same experience as you, OP. Flatlining since Day 1, though during my previous streak I've been out of it for about a week before falling back into it; without relapse, mind you. I've since relapsed to MO with the strategic intention of getting me out of flatline; though withdrawal did loosen up a bit, I think all it really did was deepen the flatline. The MO circuits are tightly linked to PMO for my brain, it seems.

   There seem to be different schools of thought on this issue. Some suggest to wait the flatline out, yet there are at least several accounts perpetually stuck in it which leaves me to believe that consistently rewiring to a partner is the actual key to recovery. Sure, waiting it out would be a lot easier, but imagine waiting for the duration of the longest recorded flatline (which is 2 years from the accounts of those who recovered) without any relapses and then realizing that you have to rewire to recover.

   It's a double edged sword, obviously, since abstinence is easier to maintain without a partner, yet, for some, PIED recovery without a mutual relationship seems to be impossible. Ideally you would come clean on your issues and some loving, caring female would help you out; or you would have to find some conservative/religious virgin that's saving herself for marriage, but would let you cuddle/kiss her in excess. There's also the aspect that you have to genuinely fall in love with her for your body to work as it's intended to.

6. Yes the MO thing is definitely an unknown area as of now. Perhaps it depends on the person. Sounds like Mik is able to MO on a regular basis with very minimal negative effects.. In that case I'm jealous haha. MO has always really fucked me up. As soon as I go out in public after even just MO, for some reason my eyes become weak. Like it's literally impossible to maintain prolonged eye contact with people. This horrible PMO shit has turned me into a weakling.

   You will have to experiment to see how each affects you. Though since you are experiencing PIED, I would highly recommend abstaining from MO at least for a couple months like Gary Wilson says. Need to sensitize your brain as much as possible. There are those that believe you NEED to MO at least once in awhile for health reasons. In that case I would think that doing a quick MO without edging may keep your system regular at least.

   I've always been able to go a long time between relapses when I put my mind to it. Even without MO.. I end up having regular WD at two week intervals or so. That's another interesting thing about abstaining from MO... the dreams you have will change. When I start my streaks.. my WD's usually involve dreams where I am PMOing in front of my computer.. But as the months go on... they become more and more about real physical action.. kissing.. intimacy and real sex. It's almost like you can get a glimpse into your brain and see it rewiring.

   Anyways just gotta experiment and see for yourself. As long as your not PMOing anymore, your making progress.

7. That's my dilemma now dude.. I'm trying to make my brain as sensitive as possible.. no unneeded stimulation.. just so I can heal faster. Which at this point means no P or MO. But I am worried that it's probably not the best for health to be going prolonged periods of time without MO. Does MO have any negative affects for you?

8. Yeah It seems like there is no right answer, some people say they have pied so bad they can't get hard at all without porn. In my case if I am binging on porn multiple times a day, I can't get hard for mo or sex either. Once I take a break for a day or 2, it is then much easier to get off without porn, and I feel the urge to mo every night and have quite intense orgasms through imagination alone.

   You mention that going out in public is difficult after masturbating, I would question how much of that is physiological vs psychological. We carry around a lot of shame surrounding masturbation, particularly as men, and particularly as recovering porn addicts.

   With Mo every night the fantasies become more vanilla over time rather than the escalation from porn. Eventually just masturbating without porn is more enjoyable than it is with porn. With frequent mo I also avoid the heightened pleasure that occurs when abstaining for long periods of time and then having an orgasm. The longer you put it off the more intense the orgasm is, and then you want to keep chasing that because nothing feels as good.

   Nightly mo is just my way of entering a flatline of sorts where mo is more of a relaxing and relatively enjoyable activity rather than something I need to plan my life around. If you mo at night then you can use that low energy state to help fall asleep, then any negative effects are gone by morning. It's also more enjoyable to mo right before falling asleep for whatever reason, easier to relax and enjoy whatever vanilla fantasy I choose. It's only when I mo multiple times in a day that the negative effects last into the next day.

   It's like drinking a cup of coffee every day vs binging all the time. One cup of coffee feels nice after you build up a decent tolerance to it, but if you drink multiple cups a day or you abstain from caffeine and then binge on it you are really going to feel the effects both positive and negative. I tend to think that when something feels really good to us addicts we really want to dive into it, even if we rationally know the second mo/pmo isn't going to feel as good as the first one.

   I should probably mention I am also getting laid once per week via a professional arrangement. I'll be cutting down on that once I am a month free of pmo, but it is certainly making things a lot easier Depending on where your morality lies on such things you might consider it yourself, just stick to professional providers with their own websites/independence.

9. Thank you all for posting your take and experience on this issue. I agree with Mik, looks like this is very subjective and there is no clear cut answer, since the medical field is still unaware of this horrible addiction.

   In the last 4 days I have been in a mental hell. I don't know what it is but has never been that prolonged and severe, I am bombarded with thoughts of previous failures in various areas in my life (but mostly work related) and my brain is convincing me that I am incapable of being a successful and strong person! It is the ultimate self-sabotage and it is horrible because it makes me weak and I can't get myself to do much! I am not going to MO to make this stop, because I am not having any reason to believe that MOing will fix the situation. I am waiting now for this mental state to go away and trying to do at least something.

   My brain keeps screaming about all of the failed opportunities and bad choices that I have made in my life. I don't think of tasks or things I have to do with optimism for a better outcome, instead it is this constant dread of failure. I have this idea that I am not someone that takes initiatives and these thoughts are extremely exacerbated now. Maybe it is a way for my brain to say - enough is enough, but right now it has the opposite effect - it paralyzes me.

   I was following a guy on youtube and he was in depression almost till day 60, but after that very positive changes were happening to him, especially in relation to confidence and inner peace, so hopefully I will be there soon!

   If the flatline is just lack of erection, this does not bother me, but it seems that with that comes the feeling of being lesser of a man, so why try anything, and that is the most horrible thing for me.

   Last edited: Feb 16, 2017

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